Rishi Sunak & Akshata Murty: Power, Identity & Why Patience Beats Ambition | Nikhil | People by WTF

I'm not going to talk to Axita like she's Rishi's wife or Nara and Morti's daughter. >> Uh forget Rishi and your dad. Where does Axita's validation come from? >> From genuinely having impact.

We'd love to have you guys. I mean, I mean, I would love it. You would love it. You would I will if you get her involved, Nicola, I won't be able to get her back home.

For a guy who looks like me, brownskinned, to become the prime minister of England, you have to be good at storytelling. >> Yeah, that's nice of you to say. That's nice of you to say. I >> at your age >> at my age look in I think obviously you have to be able to communicate reasonably well in politics.

So they had lots of similar patients overlapping and I would I was struck because you'd go to the door and you'd pan the thing and they'd said, "Oh, are you Mrs. Sunnak's son or you Dr. Sununnak's son? " I'd say yes.

And you know, I'm lucky to spend time with the people developing this technology, people thinking about it. I I think there's just an incredible amount of uncertainty about exactly how this is all going to work out. >> Would you send your daughters to an engineering college today? I >> I think, you know, would I send them to Yeah.

Um so >> yeah so understanding people understand at a in a better way which uh which again is so those are the I think what I'd say you know kids is an engineer this but it's these other things I'd want to make sure one way or another from school from college from whatever else they're building those skill sets uh because I think those whatever happens with AI those will be more and more valuable >> I always say to um Rishi I'm so intrigued and and frankly more convinced uh than ever that in the world of AI let's figure out let's lean into being more human and what does it mean to be more human we can have a conversation around that um but but I think to me those are qualities >> I'll become more important less not less important >> compassion and intuition and things like that now you can tell me whether AI can learn all of that maybe in time AGI etc that let's lean into those human skills um and those are not and I think schools are changing schools because I now have been um in one shape or form I I have been a part of the Indian education system the US education system and the British education system >> through the kids yeah >> through the kids and um in all of these places I see it is changing Nikl it was not it's not like when I was growing up right um >> but I mean >> but is it changing fast enough that's a question >> I think that is the key right and it's and I think because probably because same with you like we're closer to the >> technology development like so we see what's happening there and the government always moves slower than that even at the best of times and changing whole systems like an education system takes time but my my general >> and I was saying this uh you know last week at the AI summit right that What political leaders can't afford to do is treat AI like tomorrow's problem.

>> Oh, I was just going to say our approaches are quite different. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. >> Right.

It was a genuine kind of we're looking for an icebreaker and Rishi just went straight in for the food. So, um, how was the journey Rishi from going from being a person who was at Goldman Sachs to becoming the prime minister of UK? I know it's a big question. >> It's a big question.

Is it also rate of growth that keeps you happy? >> For me, yes. So now what happens after having >> after you've done this thing? Yeah.

How does the >> responsibility feel? >> Responsibility. Yeah. >> Yeah.

And I think it just all countries have their own relationship with these types of topics and the UK has has come a long way and that's why I think it's a it's a good thing that it wasn't a big a big deal. It was a kind of oh okay and then we move on and they'll be upset with me about this or that but then not you know I didn't like what you said here or what you did there but not not because you you know you Dvali di outside the door >> even like lighting the outside street >> temple last weekend or something you know >> I know how it felt so meaningful to us it was so meaningful to our communities but we didn't even second guess it because it felt so natural and no made us feel like we should second guess it if that makes sense right like we didn't feel uncomfortable at all >> and I think that's the beauty of the UK is is your ability to >> genuinely believe in what you do >> it was a it was a very nice moment because when you become prime minister you you have you have to go see the the monarch who was the king who recently become king and um he infor formally invites you to form a a government, right?

Um so you know that that very kind of nice aspect you kind of growing up in this community >> and living in >> living in it has its downsides obviously you the my our flat door you know Downing Street is very much smaller than people realize it's very kind of higgly piggly offices and flat so you'd open our front door to our flat >> and the downing street policy unit breakout area is literally you open the door and there's people sitting there having a meeting >> quite a few tantrums yeah like you know like the kids are screaming on your way like good morning and >> while they're trying to figure something out.

But I think it was for me what stood out was just the energy and optimism >> of all Indian entrepreneurs and people involved in this. It's a it was you know really striking just being in the hall talking to people such optimism about this which is not what you find everywhere particularly in the west where there is more anxiety about AI in India there's >> optimism and and excitement and trust and that is a an advantage then you also saw the >> he's incredibly impressive isn't he the prime minister >> yes yeah he's very impressive I mean look I I used to you know talk to him about this when we were when I was in office and you know he's been talking about the India stack for an office.

I I look all countries are it's not just India all countries are thinking about these issues differently to the how they did in the past because the geopolitical environment has changed so you have to think about sovereignty we're in a world where >> countries have weaponized supply chains there's more geopolitical competition and you you can't afford not to have resilience >> and do you think the world will continue to move in this direction where we're kind of like I don't know If I can call it del globalization, >> it's d-risking.

>> I don't remember what book I was reading this in, but at one point in time in UK's history, Birmingham was the center of innovation. >> A lot of the patents that were being created in the world happened in that one tiny place. I don't remember where I read this, but they were making a case for how Birmingham and the local economy shut down to foreign products. So, the industry locally could thrive and when they came up to scale and came up to a certain quality, they opened up all over again.

Well, he was an engineer. Um, but it was not an overnight success. I'm not saying it was a failure, but it took a long time. So, I grew up very much being my own person.

And I was I I that really moved me >> and it's what we used to >> and it's what we used to discuss a lot about even at Stanford >> we'd have these big not big but we'd have these debates right about CSR and >> I I covered it from a bit more of a traditionally capitalist >> capitalistic economic way >> economic argument yeah and you know and actually stood out for again especially in a business school environment She you always stood out because you were always that the one person in whatever study group.

That doesn't mean you shun >> desire >> but equally you don't shun um austerity >> right you you embrace both in a way because what comes out of that >> that um those two extremes comes the middle path and uh Anushka was saying this the other day she if she's our youngest daughter she's 13 she said the the Romans I hope because I don't know this philosophy as well as she does. She she was talking about the Stoics versus the Epicurans. >> Mhm. >> The Epicurans are all about >> More Greek than Romans.

>> Like you you know and you are in that position. Someone else said this to me, very successful technology executive said this to me an early meeting he had with me actually in Downing Street. He said that you're in this position because your ability to make those decisions is on on average better than most other people, right? Your judgment is on average better.

But like some one of the criticisms I've faced is well don't what's your identity? Right? Because as you rightly said, you know, you're your father's daughter, your husband's wife. And so, um, it's it's got me thinking, you know, what's identity about?

>> I would say >> there was a place called Dosa Camp. >> Yes. In fourth block. >> Yes.

A and that's what I try and get across to young people is, you know, that's for the most part how substantive change happens. It happens when you decide to come inside and be part of the process and take the time to bring it about. the kind of romantic cinematic notion that it can happen from the outside being the disruptor with one speech or amazing protest, you know, that it works in the movies. I think it's less about real life, which is why young people should, if they do want to change things for the better, do it through through government and come into public service and come in come into politics to to >> come into politics and then do what?

because it will give you that validation that you want >> and skills >> and and set of practical skills and financial security and independence. And my word, what an incredible platform that is to then >> enter politics where you have so much more understanding and self-awareness of who you are. Mhm. >> You've already got that validation, >> which which means you'll enter the political arena with so much more personal self-confidence, >> the resilience of having had the ups and downs of building a business and doing something and then using that experience to benefit the country.

>> Um it comes back to what I wrote about in my Stanford business school essay and in fact I did write about this is the solution is education. So here's what I mean. ethic. you you know when you think of a society and how it progresses there there many different ways but you want to make sure that you the society that you live in the the the government of the land of the nation provides sufficient security so that the basic needs are met right now I know that that isn't always easy but that's sort of the focus And then you think well okay then how can we progress as a society and to me the answer is education because education in my mind is one of the things that allows equality of opportunity to emerge >> um >> in a way has that been solved for because education has gotten democratized with internet and AI and all of that like I never went to college >> I can choose to pick a book I like to read and read it >> yeah but that's because you're fundamentally curious So I define education more broadly, >> right?

What do you use it for? >> Oh, like the biggest use case. >> Biggest use case I mean for me is research, right? Thinking about researching things that >> likely Claude because you're >> Exactly.

Um but what I've been fascinated is again as someone who's on the outside, can AI be creative? >> And what then is even creativity? Right? uh for a long time in the early days of this whole uh evolution of AI people would say well AI can uh code faster than you solve mathematic problems etc but it can't be creative and so I'm I've been amazed how I can have philosophical discussions with Claude and it will come up with the most creative thoughtful answers.

So I think in both cases you have to recognize the the kind of connection between the short term and the long term. You can't exclude the short term and and just say I'm focused on the long term. >> You guys like chocolate? >> Yes.

Yeah, >> but you've just got to be able to keep learning and adapting and not just learning about new things but learning from your failures so that you can hopefully succeed to higher heights and on the next thing you do. >> Be being curious about your failures. Well, that's the point is you I think it's important that the story that you tell yourself about why things didn't work is really important and it's easy not to be curious enough about it and to assume it I said you were the victim of circumstance or you can you know said you have to be more >> balanced.

>> We've actually like I'm really intrigued by this point that we all ca arrived at through that question around how do you get a 28-year-old who is to get into politics when they're also rightly looking for both purpose and validation. >> Yeah. >> And I was I think as you said so beautifully that if you can get someone of that age to engage with just one policy that can impact so many people at such a young age. Like what is more motivating than that, right?